diff --git a/zone/aggro.cpp b/zone/aggro.cpp
index 78fab6758..06716b3df 100644
--- a/zone/aggro.cpp
+++ b/zone/aggro.cpp
@@ -45,7 +45,7 @@ void EntityList::CheckClientAggro(Client *around)
 			continue;
 
 		if (mob->CheckWillAggro(around) && !mob->CheckAggro(around))
-			mob->AddToHateList(around, 100);
+			mob->AddToHateList(around, 25);
 	}
 }
 
@@ -1115,15 +1115,13 @@ int32 Mob::CheckAggroAmount(uint16 spell_id, Mob *target, bool isproc)
 		int HateMod = RuleI(Aggro, SpellAggroMod);
 		HateMod += GetFocusEffect(focusSpellHateMod, spell_id);
 
-		//Live AA - Spell casting subtlety
-		HateMod += aabonuses.hatemod + spellbonuses.hatemod + itembonuses.hatemod;
-
 		AggroAmount = (AggroAmount * HateMod) / 100;
 	}
 
 	// initial aggro gets a bonus 100 besides for dispel or hate override
-	if (!dispel && spells[spell_id].HateAdded == 0 && !on_hatelist)
-		AggroAmount += 100;
+	// We add this 100 in AddToHateList so we need to account for the oddities here
+	if (dispel && spells[spell_id].HateAdded > 0 && !on_hatelist)
+		AggroAmount -= 100;
 
 	return AggroAmount + spells[spell_id].bonushate + nonModifiedAggro;
 }
@@ -1181,9 +1179,6 @@ int32 Mob::CheckHealAggroAmount(uint16 spell_id, Mob *target, uint32 heal_possib
 		int HateMod = RuleI(Aggro, SpellAggroMod);
 		HateMod += GetFocusEffect(focusSpellHateMod, spell_id);
 
-		//Live AA - Spell casting subtlety
-		HateMod += aabonuses.hatemod + spellbonuses.hatemod + itembonuses.hatemod;
-
 		AggroAmount = (AggroAmount * HateMod) / 100;
 	}
 
diff --git a/zone/attack.cpp b/zone/attack.cpp
index aa17c2355..92b907250 100644
--- a/zone/attack.cpp
+++ b/zone/attack.cpp
@@ -2429,17 +2429,23 @@ void Mob::AddToHateList(Mob* other, uint32 hate /*= 0*/, int32 damage /*= 0*/, b
 	Mob* targetmob = this->GetTarget();
 
 	if(other){
+		bool on_hatelist = CheckAggro(other);
 		AddRampage(other);
-		int hatemod = 100 + other->spellbonuses.hatemod + other->itembonuses.hatemod + other->aabonuses.hatemod;
+		if (on_hatelist) { // odd reason, if you're not on the hate list, subtlety etc don't apply!
+			// Spell Casting Subtlety etc
+			int hatemod = 100 + other->spellbonuses.hatemod + other->itembonuses.hatemod + other->aabonuses.hatemod;
 
-		int32 shieldhatemod = other->spellbonuses.ShieldEquipHateMod + other->itembonuses.ShieldEquipHateMod + other->aabonuses.ShieldEquipHateMod;
+			int32 shieldhatemod = other->spellbonuses.ShieldEquipHateMod + other->itembonuses.ShieldEquipHateMod + other->aabonuses.ShieldEquipHateMod;
 
-		if (shieldhatemod && other->HasShieldEquiped())
-			hatemod += shieldhatemod;
+			if (shieldhatemod && other->HasShieldEquiped())
+				hatemod += shieldhatemod;
 
-		if(hatemod < 1)
-			hatemod = 1;
-		hate = ((hate * (hatemod))/100);
+			if(hatemod < 1)
+				hatemod = 1;
+			hate = ((hate * (hatemod))/100);
+		} else {
+			hate += 100; // 100 bonus initial aggro
+		}
 	}
 
 	if(IsPet() && GetOwner() && GetOwner()->GetAA(aaPetDiscipline) && IsHeld() && !IsFocused()) { //ignore aggro if hold and !focus